Nice post. Just a question ... I'm looking up that word fill in Genesis 1:9 and do we know it also means spread? I don't see that meaning in the interlinear. Just wondering about the additional meaning, which is interesring and which I haven't looked at before here.
Can you elaborate more? What verse and word are you looking at? Is it "scattered" in Genesis 11:9? Are you looking in a different version than NIV? I'd be happy to do a bit of research.
Oops, I meant to write Genesis 9:1. I think you referenced the word fill there (as God telling Noah to fill the earth) - as also meaning spread across it. But I didn't see the spread meaning in that word there, just fill. It might not be that different but it's interesting to me wrt to how you explain that they didn't spread. They could have filled just by being fruitful but spreading intentionally is another meaning. I don't mean to nitpick, it's just an interesting and significant point so I thought I'd ask.
Oh, yes that helps! I did some research on those words (fill in 9:1 and scattered in 11:4, 8, 9). The word "fill" has the normal meaning of "to be filled up" as I would expect. Similarly, "scattered" has the meaning of "to be scattered." Again, basically what I would expect. I think part of what you are talking about is the difference between the method and the outcome. God commands Noah and family to "fill the earth." This is the outcome God wants. In my head, the method that people would use to accomplish that outcome would be to spread across the land. So I don't necessarily think that fill and spread could be used interchangeably here. It's just that one is used to accomplish the other. Does that make sense? And part of the significance of the Babel story is that the people changed their method, which would then change the outcome. Instead of spreading, which would give an outcome of filling the earth, they chose to build a city so that they would not be scattered. This would result in a different outcome - they would not fill the earth.
Another point that I think is significant here when looking at the connotation of the original Hebrew wording is that the word used in 9:1 for "fill" also frequently means to be ordained or consecrated for service to God. So God essentially commanded Noah and family to fill the earth and be in service to him. But then along came Babel, and now not only are they not wanting to fill the earth, but they are no longer concerned with God. They want to be great in their own right. So I think their rebellion goes a lot deeper than just the physical location where they decided to settle. Definitely something interesting to ponder!
Thanks for all that Karen. Lots here. I think my main curiosity (and on this subject in general) is to what extent God told them to spread, and then why they choose to congregate in one place. Genesis 11:4 tells us why they did; and we see this constantly through history, including now. The underlying dynamic of people elevating themselves over God is at the center of so much consequence. Thanks again.
Nice post. Just a question ... I'm looking up that word fill in Genesis 1:9 and do we know it also means spread? I don't see that meaning in the interlinear. Just wondering about the additional meaning, which is interesring and which I haven't looked at before here.
Can you elaborate more? What verse and word are you looking at? Is it "scattered" in Genesis 11:9? Are you looking in a different version than NIV? I'd be happy to do a bit of research.
Oops, I meant to write Genesis 9:1. I think you referenced the word fill there (as God telling Noah to fill the earth) - as also meaning spread across it. But I didn't see the spread meaning in that word there, just fill. It might not be that different but it's interesting to me wrt to how you explain that they didn't spread. They could have filled just by being fruitful but spreading intentionally is another meaning. I don't mean to nitpick, it's just an interesting and significant point so I thought I'd ask.
Oh, yes that helps! I did some research on those words (fill in 9:1 and scattered in 11:4, 8, 9). The word "fill" has the normal meaning of "to be filled up" as I would expect. Similarly, "scattered" has the meaning of "to be scattered." Again, basically what I would expect. I think part of what you are talking about is the difference between the method and the outcome. God commands Noah and family to "fill the earth." This is the outcome God wants. In my head, the method that people would use to accomplish that outcome would be to spread across the land. So I don't necessarily think that fill and spread could be used interchangeably here. It's just that one is used to accomplish the other. Does that make sense? And part of the significance of the Babel story is that the people changed their method, which would then change the outcome. Instead of spreading, which would give an outcome of filling the earth, they chose to build a city so that they would not be scattered. This would result in a different outcome - they would not fill the earth.
Another point that I think is significant here when looking at the connotation of the original Hebrew wording is that the word used in 9:1 for "fill" also frequently means to be ordained or consecrated for service to God. So God essentially commanded Noah and family to fill the earth and be in service to him. But then along came Babel, and now not only are they not wanting to fill the earth, but they are no longer concerned with God. They want to be great in their own right. So I think their rebellion goes a lot deeper than just the physical location where they decided to settle. Definitely something interesting to ponder!
Thanks for all that Karen. Lots here. I think my main curiosity (and on this subject in general) is to what extent God told them to spread, and then why they choose to congregate in one place. Genesis 11:4 tells us why they did; and we see this constantly through history, including now. The underlying dynamic of people elevating themselves over God is at the center of so much consequence. Thanks again.